Listen: DHL commits to Mammoth, old habits die hard with the 757, and from Russia with love for the Il-96T

In this week’s episode of the “Cargo Facts Connect” podcast, Cargo Facts Editor Jeff Lee and Associate Editors Andrew Crider and Robert Luke discuss DHL’s acquisition of ex-Delta 777-200LRs for conversion to 777-200LRMFs with Mammoth Freighters. The deal marks the first major express carrier commitment to the Mammoth program. Additionally, AAR signaled a continued interest in 757-200 conversions, acquiring nine ex-American Airlines units . The company already has sold one of those aircraft to AerSale. Finally, Russia-based Volga-Dnepr Group has seemingly found an alternative to the western widebody freighters it operated, investing in the Il-96-400T. Recent imagery shows a 2003-vintage airframe recently adorned in the colors of the group’s subsidiary, AirBridgeCargo. Tune in for a discussion of these topics and more for the week ending March 31, 2023. A transcript is available below. This transcript has been generated by software and is being presented as is. Some transcription errors may remain. Andrew Crider Hello and welcome to this episode of cargo facts connect the podcast of cargo facts, the newsletter of record for the air cargo and freighter aircraft industries for over 40 years. I'm your host Andrew Crider, associate editor of cargo facts. Robert Luke And I'm your Robert Luke, Associate Editor here at cargo facts. Jeff Lee And I'm Andrew Crider Jeff I'm all too excited to introduce you. We're proud of our editor today, I speak for Robert and myself because you have a golden scoop in DHL. share with our listeners more what you learned. Jeff Lee Sure, I'd love to so yesterday, we found that there was evidence of a an interesting move from DHL being them looking to acquire their first triple seven 200 LR passenger aircraft. Now, as we know, there are 10x Delta Airlines triple seven 200 LRS. And these are all slated to be converted with mammoth freighters. But the first one, the first two already underway in Fort Worth, and these are going to be for cargo jet. Cargo jet has four that they are acquiring or have acquired from Mammoth and which left six now these six remaining aircraft in the past several months were acquired by jet Tran. And more recently, five of these were announced to be part of a short term lease deal with Air India for their growing passenger operations. So that left one and that one now appears to be the process of being purchased by DHL. So, there's a lot to say about this. But perhaps the most one of the most interesting things is that DHL, of course is already adding a bunch of new triple seven freighters, production freighters and clearly they are, you know, keen desperate to add more large wide body capacity. And they are doing that by picking up there first of what I would assume to be at least several of these triple seven 200 LRs and then having been converted with mammoth. You know this, the triple seven 200 LR MF is fairly similar. The end product is fairly similar to the existing production triple seven freighter. So, and DHL, of course even with its other aircraft types, like the 767, for example. It also has new build 767 300 freighters as well as 767 300 BCFs and 767 300 BDSFs. So they're no stranger to operating various types of one particular model. So and the other interesting thing is that, you know, they are what would seem to be the first of the three major integrators to basically commit or go head with one of these next generation large wide body programs. You know, of course, the other ones being the triple seven dash 8 F and the other being the A350 Freighter. So, they are moving ahead with triple seven conversions. But that doesn't mean that they're not also looking at the other programs. So we'll see what happens but in the meantime, we'll Yeah, we'll see how many they end up how many of these triple seven 200 LR conversions they end up doing, and where they will place them because cargo jet, the other triple seven 200 lrmF customer will actually be operating its own four triple 7 200 LRMFs for DHL as part of that agreement, they announced it last year. So you know one option I see would be potentially DHL placing these conversions with cargo jet, which will already be operating that that type. So that Yeah, so there's a lot of interesting stuff in this in this story. Andrew Crider Jeff, I want to ask you could you describe the the feedstock I know the ex delta are these younger older what? Tell me more about them? Jeff Lee They are not that old. And though this one was 2009, and you know, they the number of cycles, these haven't really haven't done that many. And of course, they were parked, you know, late 2020. So, yeah, these these are pretty good feedstock frames. And you know, DHL is, doesn't have any problem with just, you know, acquiring used aircraft, passenger feedstock, but even added a used triple seven production freighter recently, or last year. So, yeah, they just got, they have all kinds of freighters all kinds of ages and different conversion types. So it's just a very, very diverse fleet. Andrew Crider Well, this is all very, very big news, especially on the heels after IAIs, first flight of their triple seven. Prototype. So we're happy to see this from Mammoth. And this is great news. We celebrate Jeff for this outstanding reporting. I believe it was an exclusive. But because we are a fair and balanced publication, we spent the first beginning of the podcast discussing Jeff's triumphs. Let's even the playing field because Jeff, you have the wrong opinions on the needle. I talk, of course of Boeing's 757 Freighter. And I'm going to turn to Robert Luke, for more on that. Robert Luke Thank you. I appreciate that, Andrew. And again, our congratulations Jeff, that was a very exclusive news break that not everyone else has, except for cargo facts. But getting into the topic here. I do believe that we have a little bit of a standoff here, when it comes to the narrow body freighter conversions that go the extra mile, when we're looking at the A 321, making its strong presence felt and the 757 that is now basically letting the A321 know, hey, we're not going out without a fight. And the reason I said that is because this week, AAR stepped in and acquired nine more X American Airlines 757 two hundreds, with the purpose of providing additional support, whether it's feedstock engine or component support directly to the 757 freighter program. And I would like to just say for an airplane that started as production in 1981, and ceased the production line in 2004. This is monumental, it's definitely test of is definitely time tested, it's a freighter that's proven its worth if you look at the power, load capability ratio, it far exceeded in that category. I mean, there are some pros and cons from an aspect of the seven five probably has a higher fuel burn rate per hour. But you know what you can carry almost 60,000 pounds of cargo anywhere within its range specs is definitely something that's hard to beat. So I see based on comments that were made from aersale, and we do want to recognize their commitment to the program. When they even told cargo facts back in December that they saw a long term need for the aircraft. And we're definitely investing in it, we're starting to see some more of that effect taking place with different arm manufacturers and supporters of the program, as we referenced the AAR But in addition to that, precision conversions also stepped in and opened up a conversion line recently. And they did so with this group down in Louisiana called avex I believe it is and they are now even if it as they faced the end of their program, showing a need to open up another conversion line just to finish out the orders that continue to come in for the aircraft. So I think that speaks not only just volumes, but it shows that they're not willing to just slowly fade away and I'm very happy for that because I'm a true avid fan of the seven 757 So thank you AVEX down in Louisiana for opening up that new line and letting these established season 757s have one more go around in the air cargo sector to continue providing valuable service to customers globally. But I do like to see the competition. I do think the 321 is going to be a very, very Strong freighter in the market. But, you know, if I had to make my choice, which I won't, because I will keep it neutral, I think they both have a purpose in the market. And I think both of them will be something that the industry will need for years to come. So, that being said, I'll pass it on back for any questions that you guys want to have, please feel free to reach out and let us know. We'll be glad to do some research on this some more and answer them for you. But I'm going to pass it back to Andrew, as we continue to see the 757 live on a few more years. Andrew Crider Jeff, your rebuttal? Jeff Lee Well, yeah, I just think that the timing of this is interesting. And one question I have is why? Well, why now but also, as we know, Aersale acquired that huge batch of these x Americans, 757s, 24 of them. And, you know, is eventually going to have converted most of these. But why were these nine? Not Included in that deal? And, you know, on a related note, why? Why didn't Aersale end up acquiring these nine? Now, I kind of had an half answer to that is, as we saw Aersale actually acquired one of these from AAR so yeah, I just I that's something I'm wondering, Robert Luke You know, that is a good question. And I don't have a direct answer. But I think it speaks to the value that the aircraft brings to the to the cargo sector. And when you look at it from that aspect, it's more than capable of doing what the A321 does. The only difference is, is that it's just an order variant. And if I'm not mistaken, it carries a little bit more than a 321 as well, if we look at the payload capacity and compare and compare between the two airframes. Again, I think the seven five is just a unique freighter as far as what its capacity is, what its range capability is, and what you know, what has been doing for years and as evidenced by the number of 757s in the active fleets of Express and integrators like UPS and FedEx, and DHL. And pretty much you look it over in China, SF airlines recently, not just over, you know, the past five or 10 years, but they've been loading up on the seven fives as well. And this is in the midst of the introduction of the A321. So I think that there's still a lot of value that's being driven from the airframe as a freighter and I think a lot of operators are recognizing that and deciding to go with it even as nearing the end of this freighter production cycle. Andrew Crider Well, Robert, you're you're certainly right. And I can verify that by checking the cargo facts freighter Guide, which according to our guide, the 757 200 PCF. Slash SF can carry around 4000 More kilograms, offering an additional position to the A 321 200 P two F. But rather than compare the seven five with the A 321. I can always want to give you an analogy, Robert, and see where that takes your mind. One of the other stories this week we saw came from Canadian north, which is a operator in Canada specializing in hard to reach areas and we're talking about isolation. And then in Canada, you can see a niche for the 737 classic of operating on improvised landing strips and other very isolated, hard to reach areas. And you see that kind of echoed in Latin America as well with a variety of 737 classic operations. Now, we're still several years away from the 757 Reaching the same, the same age profile as a 737. Classic. But do you see a niche role for the 757 to fill in the decade to come? Robert Luke You know, that's a good question. And you know, I would say looking at it from that angle. I do believe there's opportunity in the secondary markets when the primary operator started unloading them and in great greater quantities. Are we there yet? I don't think so. If I had to give my personal opinion on the matter. I honestly believe that seven five has at minimum, at least another strong five years, possibly seven, before you start seeing a strong reduction in fleet operations of the aircraft type and if that's the case, to just focus more on your on an answer to your question, I can definitely see them filling in. And ably filling in the roles that the 737 Classic is currently doing in the greater regions of the secondary market operations up north, as you mentioned, and down into Latin American and even into Asian Pacific regions, because of its strength and capability from a carrying capacity is engine power. And, you know, the ability to carry those loads over great ranges, I definitely can see that it can enter a market segment for some of the younger freighter variants that are, you know, probably within the 15 to 18 year window right now that are in operation. This freighters on the 757 side. Andrew Crider Certainly, I mentioned the Canadian North reporting. But what I should have mentioned was their most recent conversion was actually of the 737 400 Combi into full freighter status. Jeff, have you seen that conversion before from a combi to full freighter? Jeff Lee Yeah, this was also really interesting. And we well, first, of course, the the conversion itself from a combi to a full freighter is much easier than, you know, a full passenger version to freighter. Because it's already gotten half, basically half. You're already halfway there. Well, yeah, there's the cargo doors already there. It's just the interior. But what's interesting is we haven't seen a combi a 737 Combi to full freighter conversion for a while. A few years, in fact, and the one that I Yeah, the ones that I can think of a batch of Alaska Airlines 400 combis that were then converted to full freighters, and that was, I guess, I think in 2019, around Yeah, around that time. There I believe that was one 300 Or that may have been a quick change to Quick Change, or a combi to a full freighter. That was also done in coopesa, I think. But they're just there aren't that many of these 737 Combis still flying and actually most of them are in Canada with other carriers. So it's just because of how unique Canada is and the in terms of both, you know, the terrain and the market and just so yeah, that there is an I guess a niche that these classic combis do fill but going forward, I guess we would have to ask ourselves Are these going to all these carriers carriers gonna look at continue to look at the Combi configuration, in which case only the 737 700 Flex combi program by Pemco is available, or they're going to move more toward the full freighter type, which, you know, they can also do the 700 full freighter or the 800. So and they, we based on the conversations we've had with them they but now that many of them are still just referring to hold on to these classics, but eventually that decision will will have to be made so we'll see what happens. Andrew Crider We will certainly a wait and see and report back when we have more. I when we're taking a while here we're almost out of time, but I want to close with something that I find very interesting. And that would be news from Russia's cargo carrier. air bridge cargo is a part of the volga Dnepr group ever since the outbreak of the war in Ukraine after Russia was hit by sanctions following their invasion. Lodging operators were put into very difficult positions not able to source parts for Western built Airbus and Boeing aircraft, which is fueling a drive that we haven't seen since the Cold War back to the Soviets where Russia will have a dependence on domestically produced aircraft. We we've been following Airbridgecargo for the entirety of the conflict to see what their move would be. And it looks like we're close to an answer. Recently Russian aircraft the Russians, the MSN simply too long for me to attempt to recite, but this is a 2009 vintage, the Ilyushin 96 400 T the 400 T being the cargo variant of the four engine aircraft, originally manufactured by the Soviet Union and a longer range variant of the Ilyushin 86. Now the Ilyushin 96 is also notable for serving as the Russian presidential aircraft and being Russia's own 47 equivalent. It never caught on as produced largely because Boeing and Airbus had already fit the need for that size of aircraft. But now that sanctions demand has returned. This aircraft was seen on Russian social media and telegram channels, even airbridge cargo colors. Recently, the aircraft is going to be powered by for progress, 90 engines. Now the Ilyushin 96 is capable of being equipped with Pratt and Whitney engines. But that certainly won't be an option, given the current economic conditions. something I find very interesting and we'll hope to hear more as information becomes available. Robert Luke Yeah, I'm curious to see where those planes are going to fly to seeing that they still have a lot of airspace restrictions imposed upon Russian operators right now, but to be continued, I suppose. Andrew Crider Right now it we can't it's going to be difficult to say where the il 26 will be deployed. We know airbridge cargo, still operates a fleet of Antonov 124s one of them is stranded in Toronto which has accumulated more than $400,000 of fines since it's the closure of Canadian airspace to Russian aircraft. We know with the 124 is an Ilyushin 76 aircrafts volga Dnepr and airbridge still operate into Asia, Vietnam, Iran, China. Time Only tell where these aircrafts pop up as soon as they are identified on publicly available sources. Jeff Lee Just a minor point but those 124s are operated by a Volga Dnepr airlines, not airbridgecargo, they're the same group, but Andrew Crider thank you for the clarification. Well, with that, that is all the time we have for today. I want to thank you for tuning in. For more multimedia coverage like this search cargo facts connect on iTunes and Spotify and search cargo facts.com. Thank you very much for tuning in and join us again next time. Subscribe to Cargo Facts Connect on iTunes or Spotify , or download the episode on Transistor . Don’t miss our two upcoming events that are essential for stakeholders in Asia and Latin America: Cargo Facts Asia , taking place April 17-19 in Singapore, and Cargo Facts LATAM , taking place May 15-17 in Panama City. Register today.

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