Listen: JAL converts 767s, Cargo Three selects MD-10s, China Airlines retires 747s

In this week’s episode of the “Cargo Facts Connect” podcast, Cargo Facts Editor Jeff Lee and Associate Editors Andrew Crider and Robert Luke discuss a series of widebody developments involving a variety of freighter types. First, Japan Airlines will operate its own freighters again after a hiatus of more than ten years as part of a groupwide growth strategy. Meanwhile, China Airlines is continuing to retire its production 747-400Fs even as it experiences delays in receiving new 777F orders; Cargo Three is adding ex-FedEx MD-10Fs ; and Airbus has delayed entry into service of the A350F into 2026. Tune in for a discussion of these topics and more for the week ending May 5, 2023. A transcript is available below. This transcript has been generated by software and is being presented as is. Some transcription errors may remain. Andrew Crider Hello and welcome to this episode of cargo facts connect the podcast of cargo facts, the newsletter of record for the air cargo and freighter aircraft industries for over 40 years. I'm your host Andrew Crider, associate editor of cargo facts. Robert Luke And I'm your co host, Robert Luke, associate editor of cargo facts. Jeff Lee And I'm Jeff Lee, editor of cargo facts. Andrew Crider It was a extremely eventful week for a lot of things in the cargo industry. And we're going to get to them today. I want to give a quick thank you for the mention of ATSG. Who would mentioned cargo facts consulting during their their earnings call. Jeff, it was a big week for wide bodies as for multiple regions, especially in Asia. Jeff, what do you have for us? Jeff Lee right it was a good week for wide bodies. And perhaps of note is the there was quieter on the 737 800 Front, which is different. But yeah, so on the widebody front, one of the biggest and best and most unexpected stories from this week was that Japan Airlines is getting back into the freighter game. They kind of had half a foot in the door with last year's announcement that they were one of their subsidiaries was going to start flying A321 freighters for the Japanese logistics and delivery company Yamato. But that's a slightly different deal because the they're only going to be doing the flying portion they have no control over the network and everything so and those planes aren't even are leased by Yamato. But now, they are fully going to be getting back into the freighter market because they will be taking three of their 767 300 ers and converting them. They've now confirmed that they will be converting those with Boeing, which I guess was was what we had expected. And so these will be coming in, basically, toward the end of this year, until March the end of March next year. And this is basically it's interesting because they when they went before they went bankrupt in 2010. They actually had 3 767 Production freighters, so they are clearly still interested in that type. And of course, their competitor ANA also has a fleet of 767 freighters, both production and converted. So these Yeah, it'll be interesting. Interesting to see what they do with these. They say they will be flying to East Asia, obviously meaning Japan, Korea, China. And so yeah, it's it's part of their broader strategy to grow the cargo business and that the Yamato deal also falls into that. And so interestingly also this week, the first Yamato a 321, went to Singapore for conversion. And we'll see what kind of feedstock they choose for their three conversions. They have a relatively young, seven six sevens. And of course, as we reported in the past ups, clearly finds those frames attractive as well. They've bought, well, they bought three years ago. And more recently, they've also bought two that they will convert with Boeing, as well. So yeah, this is this is a very, very interesting development. And we look forward to seeing that first seven six seven head off for conversion. Yeah. What do you guys think about this? Robert Luke I think it's absolutely great. It's, you know, a tremendous boost for the industry. I think it's reflective of despite what the outlook financially is appearing to show from the global standpoint when you're looking at the inflation build up as well as the demand declining from a global standpoint, you're seeing within respective regions, that demand is still vibrant. You're also seeing that airlines are now taking a stronger interest and focus on the cargo sector because it's garnered so much attention since the pre and post pandemic era. And I think that, you know, as you said, the 767 is a attractive airframe for the cargo sector, it's very flexible in the sense that it can do segment it routes from, you know, medium to long haul, and it covers a lot of area that's going to need to be covered as far as the express shipping and ecommerce continues to develop. Not only UPS is building up their arsenal, but FedEx is definitely continuing to add to theirs and many other carriers are doing the same before that 2027 deadline hits. So I think it's tremendous. What are your thoughts Andrew? Andrew Crider I was I was really surprised by by by the jal news. I was expecting a flop over to the A 321 given Yamato group's relations with the 321 it makes a lot of sense to for them to use seven six sevens, but I guess it wouldn't be so surprising, though, so I'm just reading Jeff's thoughts as he's across the table scowling at me for being surprised at this. But that's not the only type there was to deflect. Something that I was very interesting to see was an older freighter hype getting business with cargo three. Tell me more about the MD 10 with cargo three Robert. Robert Luke Thank you, Andrew. And as Jeff was probably looking at us, I will just say the MD 10 Dash 30 F's that FedEx had recently retired 11 of them. Recently, three of them were acquired by cargo three, and thank you Jeff Lee Not yet. They will be Robert Luke They will be acquired by cargo three, but thankfully, they did give us the unit MSNs, but you can definitely read about in the article we posted yesterday, that are pending Panamanian registration, and I think it bodes well, you know, it's definitely showing that older freighters are going to be given a new life. But I love the fact that cargo three, which initially started out getting their certification in 2021, and committing to the A 300 airframe type to begin their cargo operations has transitioned to the MD Dash 10 Dash 30 F and will take on three of those in a relatively short period of time and began conducting operations. I believe it's non regular scheduled operations between Panama City and Miami. So we're looking forward to seeing that and again, you know, I was speaking with somebody who I'll keep nameless in regards to this. And they really do believe that although there was a transition and of freighter aircraft types with the retirement of the older, older freighters, the older freighters are getting second and third winds and you'll see a good balance of older and newer conversion types providing much needed lift capacity for the sector to supplement the growing demand for express shipping and ecommerce. And in addition to that new lanes that are being opened with open skies agreements that are being established between countries to continue to support this growing demand for cargo service. In addition to that, there was another segment of older freighters unfortunately that will put put out into they will put to rest and placed into storage. Jeff, do you want to shed some light on that since it seems to be coming from your backyard? Jeff Lee Oh, China Airlines Robert Luke Yes, China Airlines Andrew Crider Just the the stumbling. Bravo, Robert. You got him, completely unprepared. Jeff Lee You caught me now that I know what you're talking about. Yes. Well, China Airlines. One of the largest 747 operators obviously freighter seven four seven 400 freighter operators. And we as we know they've they've kind of talked about their plans to for that that type and how they are replacing those and they have started that process. It's, of course going to be a drawn out process. But that deadline that they've set for themselves is is coming up soon. And so they they've actually some of their seven four sevens aren't flying right now actually, but they tell us they they're still counting those as part of the fleet. But One that they did send to the desert last month is officially out. They don't have any plans for that to return, especially since they've actually sold that aircraft now. And so they have five more triple seven freighters coming. But those are being those are late in fact one was supposed to be delivered last month. But it still is at the Boeing factory. So they are just kind of waiting to see the exact timeline for for those those new deliveries so they can figure out what or when they will be removing the 747. But I guess the the the end goal is that in the next couple of years, they will have gotten rid of most of those quad engine jets. And that brings up a question, doesn't it, because some of these are many of their seven, four sevens that actually would actually be attractive to many other people or companies. Especially since they're production 747 4 Hundreds, they're not that old. So, you know, we've reported on some companies that are still playing with seven four sevens. So let me ask you, you two, potential candidates to pick up these seven four sevens? Robert Luke Well, I'm gonna go with the first one I spoke about before we began our recording and I think Robert, associate editor at Cargo Facts believes air one might be a potential interesting, new up and coming startup carrier that might want that might then be want to add these to their fleet. Jeff Lee Andrew? Andrew Crider You know, I would put it with Jet 1x. Robert Luke Yeah, I second that Andrew Crider That's where some of the previous seven four sevens went over those a couple of dodgy airlines in that might want to take take up with 747 400. We keep on seeing them start off with that. But it's certainly a mystery that's going to be on my mind for a very long time. Jeff Lee Well, let's not call them dodgy, because we my well I have a couple of guesses. But Robert Luke I have one more. One more interrupt real quick. I think even potentially maybe a long shot but fly meta might be one carrier one group that looks at those. Jeff Lee Yeah. And yeah, so these like, maybe, let's not call them dodgy just not major operators of freighter aircraft. So yeah, another one, which is kind of related to air one, because those companies are affiliated in some way, but aero trans cargo, who they're leasing their first 747 From. There is also air ACT in Turkey. They have been talking about adding more seven four sevens for a while. They just haven't been able to find any. And then air Atlanta Icelandic. They've been adding more and more and more 747 four hundreds. over the past couple of years. And we Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if actually they they ended up with it. Yeah, so they're what's clear is that I don't think these are production 747 400 F's well have any problem finding a new home, Robert Luke I agree, I think as as long as there's green time left in them. They're going to put them to work. Because once these planes go down, then that's one less quad engine that's capable of doing all of the great carry and lift capacity that the seven four is able to do, that's no longer going to be available. So you know, barring them being at the level of BER beyond economic repair, somebody's going to take them and put them to work. Andrew Crider Well, and on that, I'm going to say that that's all the time that we have for Jeff Lee It's actually not because speaking of time, also large widebody, the A350. will be it will be a bit more time before we see it enter into service just to end on that. Perhaps. With any kind of new aircraft program. Delays are expected but in any case, we will now see that first A350 freighter deliver and enter into service in 2026. Robert Luke Darn Airbus come on we're waiting for this one to unfold and be made available to the masses. Let's let's rapidamente this okay. Andrew Crider Ah, you know, we you're putting up the airbus which is what I was going to close out with? Um you know, I don't think I've we've encountered a conversion program or factory program that isn't encountering some sort of delay at some some rate. I mean, the Boeing's triple seven F program you know, it's it's finding a lot of delays on this passenger front. Certainly those might stretch into the cargo variant, but it's delaying their factory triple sevens which is why China Airlines in the conundrum that they are with seven four sevens you know, IAI's first flight was only delayed by a couple of months, but there was a delay. C cubed also delayed. I you know we can take a look at where EFW is with their delivery time table with our current or past articles to see who's flying so this Jeff Lee Cargojet also mentioned they expect a delay with their first triple seven 200 LR MF with Mama mammoth. Andrew Crider So it's nice that like airbus is like among the rest of us, I I've seen so much positive news about the 350. That it's a it's nice to be like okay, they're they're just one of us, even airbus can can feel can feel the pressure of you know, the economic difficulties at the time Jeff Lee I will say ATSG in their earnings today. They did mention that conversion times are Robert Luke Extended out. Jeff Lee No, they're improving, they said so that, I mean we'll hopefully see that return to normal later this year. Robert Luke Yeah, they said that that is true. What I what I'm mistaking it for was that they were at the mercy of the conversion timelines right now. So. Okay, cool. Andrew Crider Well, then, on that note, it's time to end. I want to thank you so very much for joining us today. For more multimedia content like this search cargo facts connect on iTunes and Spotify search cargofacts.com. Thank you very much for tuning in. And join us again next time. Subscribe to Cargo Facts Connect on iTunes or Spotify , or download the episode on Transistor . The first Cargo Facts LATAM takes place May 15-17 in Panama City. Register today.

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